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More “Pigeon Fever” Info & Re-Feeding Syndrome Info From UCDavis… April 04, 2010

Posted by Texas Mustang Project on April 4, 2010


The following are copied email texts from “Jane Doe” to Dr. Irwin Liu and Dr. Sharon Spier at UC Davis. “Jane Doe” is being used for this information to be distributed – obviously to protect the privacy of this individual. She had originally contacted Dr. Liu to inquire about birth control for wild horses earlier in the year. This email was directed at the Pigeon Fever infections and the re-feeding of the wild horses that had been underweight.

Dr. Spier and I have been corresponding over the course of this past week concerning the infections and other issues the wild horses are currently facing. She was gracious enough to forward this correspondence to me and to give permission for it to be posted for you all as well.

The information contained in these emails is actually very interesting and may answer a couple of your questions. Also, see the end of this post for several links to references regarding both “Pigeon Fever” and re-feeding syndrome, as well as articles regarding the care and health of horses. 

The figures used by “Jane Doe” have not been verified. Her opinions are her own and are in no way a reflection of the opinions of myself, Dr. Liu, or Dr. Spier unless specifically stated otherwise.

T.

Unknown when this email originated…

Hello Dr. Liu,
This is “Jane Doe” again in Any Town, USA. with a question regarding Wild Horses.  I have asked for your help regarding birth control for the wild horses earlier this year.
The BLM has rounded up over 1900 Horses from the Calico herd and the horses are now in the Fallon, Nevada holding pen. Over 119 have died. This includes approx. 40 foals that the mares have miscarried following the 14 mile chase. Others are still dying of metabolic syndrome, or change in feed. 2 foals died from their hooves falling off from the harsh helicopter chase.
I have read they are feeding them 50 % alfalfa, which I would think is far too rich for a horse having eaten forage all of its life.
My question is, now many horses there in Fallon have Pigeon Fever. The public is allowed to visit only on Sundays from 11 a.m. till 1 p.m. The visitors there Sunday the 28th understood there is nothing being done for those with Pigeon Fever.
I understand there is no shot to prevent such a disease, but is there a treatment once a horse has the Pigeon Fever? Antibiotics? Would you know about this Pigeon Fever or know someone who can assist with the answer?
Thank You,
“Jane Doe”
 

From: Irwin Liu <ikliu@ucdavis.edu>
Subject: RE: Wild Horse Question Pigeon Fever
To: ““Jane Doe” ” <“Jane Doe”-”Jane Doe”@att.net>
Date: Wednesday, March 31, 2010, 8:19 PM

Hi “Jane Doe”,

Nice to hear from you again. Dr. Sharon Spier is the expert on pigeon fever at the University.  You can email her and ask her for a better opinion than you would get from me. 

Regards,

Irwin

On Mar 31, 2010, at 8:32 PM, “Jane Doe” wrote:

Dr. Spier,
I recently wrote to Dr. Liu regarding pigeon fever and how it is to be treated. I have the email attached that I sent to Dr. Liu. He gave me your name and address to write to ask you about pigeon fever.
The wild horses that were rounded up from the Calico herd and now in a pen in Fallon, Nevada seem to be coming up with pigeon fever. I understand at this time that the BLM is not treating the situation and there are many pregnant mares in the same area in different pens; approximately 350 pregnant mares. I would like to know if this will be a concern for the unborn foals, and should the BLM be doing something for these horses.
Many have died due to the change of feed, and several breaking their necks for different reasons with how they are handled. But now my concern is the issue of Pigeon fever.
I understood that they should be treated with antibiotics. Would you have some information on this condition?
Also, is it spread by flies? 
I guess I find it strange that “wild” horses suddenly in pens break out with “pigeon fever.”  Or was the land contaminated before they were put in the pens possibly?
Thank You,
“Jane Doe”

 
From: Sharon Spier
To: “Jane Doe” <“Jane Doe”-”Jane Doe”@att.net>
Cc: Irwin Liu <ikliu@ucdavis.edu>; Tracie Lynn Thompson tracielynnthompson@yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, April 3, 2010, 4:13 PM

Dear “Jane Doe”,  

Thank you for your email.  To answer the nutrition question first, Alfalfa was shown to be excellent forage for re-feeding an undernourished horse in research performed by Carolyn Stull, PhD of UC Davis.  I’m sure there is information on the web and the studies she performed.   I have read that the horse deaths are due to “metabolic failure from poor body condition”; so from what I have read, alfalfa would seem a good choice to feed these horses.

For PF, I have attached an article (“Dryland Distemper” C. psedotuberculosis Infections in Horses) with information on the disease. While I have not seen the horses, It would not be practical or indicated to treat the majority of these horses with antibiotics.  In most horses the disease will run its course with minimal intervention (which would likely be the most humane in a wild horse).  A lower percentage of infected horses (possibly less than 10%) will have a more complicated disease course and may develop infection in the limbs or internal infection.  In a domestic horse, this would be evaluated and treated with long-term antibiotics based on a case by case basis.  Rarely, a pregnant mare will abort.  Most pregnant mares will deliver a healthy foal (and that foal will be immune from antibodies passed in the colostrum for the first 3 months of life).  The immunity from colostrum is short-lived though, and the foal will be susceptible to disease after those antibodies decay.

The bacteria lives in Nevada soil for months in laboratory conditions and the disease has been recognized in Nevada for decades to my knowledge.  The bacteria can be spread by flies or contaminated soil or pus from another infected animal.  It would be very difficult to contain once established in a large herd.  I have read the websites and it is good that people are becoming more educated about this very common equine disease.  It could have been brought in by the wild horses and then spread with the close contact from horse to horse, or it may have been present in the pens themselves from other infected horses;  if horses were seen coming in to the pens during the gather with evidence of disease, then it would seem that they were still shedding the bacteria.

We desperately need a protective vaccine for this disease for use in instances like this and to protect our domestic horses as well.  

Best regards,

Sharon Spier, DVM, PhD

Vet Bio/Info:  

Carolyn Stull, BS, MS, PhD – Veterinary Medicine Extension, UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine

Dr. Carolyn Stull earned her Bachelor of Science degree in biochemistry from Purdue University and continued her studies at the University of Illinois. She received her MS and PhD degrees while researching muscle and exercise physiology in the horse. As a Cooperative Extension specialist, Dr. Stull directs the UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine’s Animal Welfare Program, focusing on the well-being of agricultural animals, primarily dairy cattle and horses. She has served as the chair of the Animal Welfare Committee of the US Animal Health Association and worked in collaboration with the US Department of Agriculture on issues such as the Horse Protection Act and the Commercial Transport of Equines to Slaughter. Dr. Stull was the North American representative to the ad hoc group on Land Transportation for the World Organization for Animal Health. Her research projects have been focused on examining long-term transportation stress in horses, developing nutritional rehabilitation programs for starved animals, determining the glycemic index of common equine feeds, evaluating the impact of extreme weather events on the welfare of dairy cattle on commercial dairies, the care and handling of cull dairy cattle, and the characterization of unwanted horses relinquished to non-profit rescue and shelter facilities throughout the US. She is the national recipient of the “Hank Award,” presented for outstanding research benefiting the welfare of the horse.

Sharon J. Spier, Professor – Department of Medicine and Epidemiology

Research: Immunology Infectious Disease (Equine); Equine internal medicine; endotoxemia in large animals; salmonellosis, hyperkalemic periodic paralysis in horses

Teaching: Equine Field Service Rotation

Service: Reviewer, JAVMA, AJVR, Journal of Internal Medicine; International expert in endotoxemia and hyperkalemic periodic paralysis.

International Interest: Argentina, Australia, Mexico, New Zealand

Irwin K. Liu, Professor – Department of Population Health and Reproduction, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of California

Research: Biotechnology Immunology Reproduction  (Equine, Wildlife); Reproductive diseases of horses; Immunology in relation to fertility; Egg and sperm interaction.

Teaching: Equine Reproduction; General Practice Clinics; Equine Theriogeneology; Reproduction

Service: Member, Society for Theriogeneology Committee; Member, American Association of Equine Practitioners Committee Equine Reproduction Consultant, for practicing veterinarians throughout the U.S. Consultant, Wild Horse Programs throughout the U.S.

International Interests: Argentina, Brazil, Germany, Holland, Mexico, Sweden

Reference Links:

Nutrition for Rehabilitating the Starved Horse Dr. Carolyn Stull and her team of equine welfare experts provide new guidelines for re-feeding starved horses.

Equine Sanctuary & Rescue Facility Guidelines (PDF: 46pp, 836KB)
—by Gregory Ferraro, DVM; Carolyn Stull, MS, PhD; and John Madigan, MS, DVM, Diplomate ACVIM; published by the Center for Equine Health, School of Veterinary Medicine, UC Davis.

The UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine has developed a set of guidelines to help ensure that horses maintained within equine sanctuaries and rescue farms receive adequate and proper care. The guidelines address all issues related to sanctuary management and operations. They provide information on proper facility design construction and maintenance, suggestions for management and financial organization and instructions on the proper husbandry practices and health care necessary to ensure the successful operations of all types of sanctuary and rescue facilties. An evaluation checklist, based upon the content of the guidelines, is provided within the appendix to assist individuals who may be called upon to evaluate the quality of any such facility.

– Nutrition

The Aging Horse (PDF: 12pp, 592KB) — The Horse Report, July 2006, published by the Center for Equine Health, School of Veterinary Medicine, UC Davis

The Skinny on Carbohydrates and Body Size of Horses (PDF: 10pp, 72KB) — Proceedings, 27th Annual Horse Breeders and Owners Conference, Alberta, Canada, January 9-11, 2008

– Rehabilitation of the Starved Horse

Metabolic responses of chronically starved horses to re-feeding three isoenergetic diets (PDF: 7pp, 496KB) — JAVMA Vol. 212, No. 5, pps. 691-696, March 1998, Christine L. Witham, DVM, MPVM, and Carolyn L. Stull, MS, PhD

Nutrition for Rehabilitating the Starved Horse (PDF: 12pp, 892KB) The Horse Report, July 2003, published by the Center for Equine Health, School of Veterinary Medicine, UC Davis

Managing Equine Neglect Cases (PDF: 8pp, 40B) — By Carolyn Stull, MS, PhD

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106 Responses to “More “Pigeon Fever” Info & Re-Feeding Syndrome Info From UCDavis… April 04, 2010”

  1. It would seem that they will recover with the possibility of a small number with complications. With so many there at Fallon, I can only wonder how long this will take to ‘run its course’. mar

    • From what I’ve learned so far, it doesn’t seem that the “course” will take all that long to run… It’s relatively contained in the hospital pens, and the others who are not in the hospital pens are being watched closely just in case.
      More to come later…
      T.

      • sandra longley said

        To say that they know that would be an over statement…Do you know of any studies haveing ever been done on outbreaks among nearly 2000 horses held in feedlot conditions, that are wild and have difficulty being doctored or maintaining a sterilized facility? NO and Dr. Spiers does not work under those conditions at Colo State, I know that for a fact…those horses are not having medical charts kept according to their freeze branded numbers..you cannot do a valid study unless you are using protocols..Their are no protocols in place according to my information and no plans to do so..any “research” is invalid in this instance..and yet this would be a great oportunity for the university to send vet students to get some real research and hands on experience about horses.

        • That would be innovative, just to have vet students come in and learn and give a hand. mar

        • sandra longley said

          By the way Over the years I have noticed a real dissapation of horse sense in vets..the ability to handle and work with horses in the field..everything has to go to the “clinic’ mostly because they have no feel for working with the horses..There is a vet on every corner here in horse country and I wouldn’t give you a nickle for 1/2 of them..and that goes for horse owners as well..Vets need to get experience out in the field and alot of it, not under perfect conditions, so that they can decide then to switch to small animals..Don’t let me get started…LOL

          • I was discussing this very problem with my vet who is an equine only practitioner, as were the vets I knew back in Texas. He said that these days the pool of prospective horse vets who come in with previous experience with horses is practically nil. So, they have to learn not only medicine, but horse handling as well. And we all know that there is no substitute for experience when handling horses.

            As far as my experience with general “large animal” practitioners – it’s a long story and not a pretty one. I stick to only horse, and fortunately, I’ve had that choice available both here in Indiana and in Dallas.

      • sandra longley said

        I would like to point out…again…that pigeon fever normally occurs in late fall, in this case with a late winter outbreak..the mares are in the last trimester of their pregnancy, and i hope that Dr Spiers has taken that into consideration in her statement about abortions..As other vets apparently have seen it enough to comment on it in their papers at more than 1 source, as a researcher that is how I validate information-it has to come from 2 to 3 independant sources.

  2. jan said

    i tried to leave reply regarding the 350 pregnant mares – why doesnt blm separate out those mares into smaller pens so they are out of the general population and they can safely foal and babies wont be kicked or stepped on – the blm does not see newborns as horses – but those babies are precious and they deserve to be safe

    • The pregnant mares are in separate pens… They are just in pens with each other. With that many, there is really no way that they can separate them out individually, so they have reserved the front four holding pens (approximately 265ft X 265ft each) for these mares and their foals. The first is for mares who are not going to foal “at the drop of a hat”, the next is for the ones who could drop at any minute, and the third and fourth are for the mares who have already foaled – the first one of them for the newborns and the other for the ones who are a little bit older.
      T.

      • good news, I did not know this and am glad to hear they have done what they can.. mar

      • HI,
        This sounds like a good plan, but as of March 26, mares with foals from newborn – week old were still in with adult horses.
        Although BLM’s Susie Stokke told us many mustangs are “bad mothers” what I saw did not bear this out. Most had tried to claim corners of the corrals, far from food and water. Others were in the midst of the adult horses, using their bodies to protect their foals.
        John and Troy may be overwhelmed by their responsibilities, but the foaling, under far from natural conditions, goes on.

        • Hey Terri! Great to hear from ya again…
          The mares and foals get sorted out as often as the personnel can accomplish it, but I guess you’ve got a point about being overwhelmed… John had told me at one point that they don’t like to sort every single time that there is a new foal born, rather they like to wait until there are at least a few if they can so that they are not constantly going in and disturbing the pregnant mares. Makes sense… If you know there are going to be more foals born in the next day or so, why upset the whole group for one when you can wait and accomplish more with that one upset. And secondly, I don’t think it would be very prudent to go in and upset a newborn foal and a post-partem mare within the first day – at least not in that situation. If they were domesticated already, and if they were more acclimated to the humans, then I wouldn’t have such a problem with it. But given the situation as it is, I think it’s better to give the two of them a little bit of time to “chill out” after the rigors of birthing.
          T.

          • sandra longley said

            I realise they donot have breeding dates to go by to acertain when those mares are due, but visuals should give them plenty of notice as to how close those mares are in relationship to the group..I am not nearly so understanding about not having those mares better sorted..someone will always sneak by you..but i would expect those mares generally to be already sorted..I am really getting tired of hearing “we can only do so much”..When they made the decision to do a winter gather they knew full well approx 1/2 of the horses being brought in would be foaling in those pens and should have had it well thought out. There is a responsability that goes along with the decison they made.

          • That is what we all knew when this began but the BLM has not risen to the occasion. Regardless of all the claims of experience there is still a lack of modern knowhow and input from people who could help with some of the daily problems by using a fresh eye and innovation. That is soo not happening here because BLM is a lone operation and not interested in improvements. The wild horses and burros were never given that step up to respect. Any outside interest is just considered a distraction, like us, like other vet involvement, like observers and an open debate about better management practices. There is a failure here to be better. mar

  3. LOUIE COCROFT said

    THERE ARE SOME DEFINITE DIFFERENCES OF OPINION ON THE ALFALFA HAY–ESPECIALLY FOR HORSES THAT ARE NOT ACCUSTOMED TO HAY IN THE FIRST PLACE. EVEN OWNERS AND BREEDERS OF DOMESTIC HORSES DON’T AGREE ON THAT.

    • reveil39 said

      The vet keeps on referring to “starving horses”, yet many reports talk of HEALTHY horses, which would then not need alfafa feed.

      • She’s talking about the horses that were starving in the beginning and having problems with re-feeding and diet adjustments. The horses having problems with diet adjustments were the horses that were so poor. No, not every last one of them were poor, but a very large percentage of them were. That’s what “re-feeding syndrome” is – in a nutshell. They haven’t been getting proper feed – so “no-feeding” in a sense. Then they are getting feed – “re-feeding”. We deal with it in almost every neglect and abuse case that comes through the barn. It’s a very sad situation; they’re so hungy, and they want to eat everything in sight! But I can’ t let them eat everything they want because they’re digestive tracks just can’t handle that much at once. They’d end up with colic or any other number of aillments – some that are fatal.
        T.

      • sandra longley said

        Dr. Kane said to me on Friday- that there were not large numbers of starving horses, there was a group and I have seen some in the pictures..very thin..we do not necessarily know why, There are many theories out there…worms ticks and maybe they got shut into an area with little feed(aka fenced), and the mares having the problem were from the calico and warm springs area..so maybe we need to look at what was going on in those compexes..Dr. Kane took photos at the gather and I hope he posts them

        • sandra longley said

          Quite frankly after reading all the BLM documention about the poor range conditions ect..I was REALLY expecting to see alot of horses in extremely bad shape..Overall they were in truly amazing shape..My standard, is that if you see horses in bad shape in the summer..you do have a problem..nursing mares require a higher load of nutrients at least until the foal consumes forage to suppliment his nutrition..Only later- in the WWP lawsuit did I learn the backstory on what the BLM was doing on the HMAs and what their plans were and about allotment fencing going up in the HMAs for the cattle, and instances of horses getting fenced in and coninually breaking down fences to get in and out of their areas(geez maybe that accounts for the scars on their chests that they attribute to pigeon fever..I couldn’t even see the scars on mine in a couple of months after they broke>>>????

    • sandra longley said

      Someone needs to verify that there was alfalfa with the hay..In the pictures I have seen..it is only grass hay..as someone who raises horses and feeds grass hay in the summer and alfalfa hay in the winter..I would have to take issue with the blanket statement about alfalfa just being feed to horses in bad shape..if they are in bad shape..they have not been on alfalfa..you NEVER switch to a rich hay like alfalfa immediately..it can upset the gut- cause colic from the gas and diarrea from the richness and high protein..My horses are fat and I switch them slowly with a mixture..and someone invariably colics from the change..I always have banimine on hand and watch them closely for the first couple of weeks for signs of colic..I am sure Dr. Spiers just forgot to mention that.On the other hand grass hay does not produce the gas and fermenting in the gut that alfalfa does.Nor are horses inclined to eat grass hay with any mold..but alfalfa is like candy and most will even devour the mold

      • The grass hay is given “free-choice” and the alfalfa is given in rations according to the horses being fed. And yea, it’s some of the prettiest alfalfa you’ve ever laid eyes on!
        But no, they are not given alfalfa immediately, and then when it is given it’s only in ration to prevent the richness from getting to their stomachs. And of course, the ones who are malnourished are rationed even further – which, actually, now that I think about it, all of the feed/hay given to the sick ones is very closely monitored and rationed.
        T.

  4. LOUIE COCROFT said

    I LISTENED (TWICE) TO THE RADIO SHOW WITH GINGER, ELYSE AND CRAIG. ELYSE POINTED OUT THAT SHE WAS WATCHING AND ASKING AS TO THE CONDITION OF THE HORSES AS THEY WERE BEING TAKEN OFF OF THE RANGE AND PUT INTO THE FACILITIES. SHE WAS TOLD THAT THERE WERE NO SIGNS OF ANY DISEASE OR ILLNESS. THAT WAS AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE OPERATION. THAT IS TIME WHEN THERE WOULD HAVE OR SHOULD HAVE BEEN NOTED ANY SIGNS OF PIGEON FEVER-FROM PREVIOUS INFECTIONS OR OTHERWISE. THEY WERE WATCHING FOR STRANGLES, AS THE ROUND-UP WAS CONDUCTED IN FREEZING TEMPERATURES. GINGER POINTED OUT THAT PIGEON FEVER IS CARRIED BY FLIES AND THERE ARE NO FLIES IN FREEZING TEMPERATURES.

  5. reveil39 said

    Does anyone know if the disease has spread over more than one pen?
    What if it was previously in the ground?

    • I am still trying to get conformation, (I realize that they are probably busier than a one-legged man in a sack-race right now so I’m being patient) but I don’t think that there were any animals on the grounds at Broken Arrow prior to it’s acquisition by the current owners. There are no other types of livestock being housed at the facility either.
      T.

      • sandra longley said

        Broken Arrow is a cattle opertion..A big multi state cattle operation from what i understand.

        • Yes’m, Broken Arrow and it’s owners are “cattlemen” (sorry to the Mrs. but I think in this case she’ll forgive me LOL). But they do not have cattle at the Broken Arrow facility where the horses are. And in my talks with the Mr. I found out some very interesting details as to why he wanted to get into this business to begin with. He truly does care about the horses. He spent 5 years getting the paperwork right, getting the details hammered out, finding the right setup, all of it… 5 years! Most of us would spend a year, maybe 2, in just finding our ranches and farms. This guy spent 5 years. But he didn’t give up. And no, it wasn’t for the money LOL. I won’t disclose that information because it’s just not polite or my place to do so, but I can assure you that the money wasn’t as big of a factor as everyone thinks at this point. The process of getting everything in place alone was worth a butt-load more than what the whole thing is paying. He did it because he really did want to help the horses as best he could. He did his research too. He saw what some of the other holding facilities were like for these horses. He didn’t like it. Why do you think it has taken so long for the facility itself to be built and ready to accept horses? It was because he was too much of a perfectionist and kept telling the workers “this isn’t right, do it again” or “that’s not good enough, fix it” and so on. He actually went through several crews before he got to the ones he has now because he wouldn’t accept the ones who didn’t perform to his high standards. Made of lot of people mad, but he didn’t care. He didn’t want those horses to be coming into a place that was no better than the other places he had seen. He finally had no choice but to let them in anyway – before he was satisfied with the setup – because the gather operations had started. So he made the crews work overtime to get everything ready as best he could for the horses to at least be able to occupy some of the pens, and then made them continue to work overtime to complete other peices of the puzzle while they were there. He did his best to ensure that the horses were housed away from the areas where the most work would be continuing so as not to disturb them any more than necessary.
          I am not a fan of defending anyone that I don’t know personally, and even then I don’t like to do so because I don’t normally trust people. But when I do say that I am defending someone, it’s because I feel very strongly about the words I put into that defense. That being said, I am defending Troy and his wife in this situation. They are truly not the enemy here, rather they are almost in the same boat as some of us. Our hands are tied on some issues, but when they are loosed other times, we go at it as hard as we can. Troy and family have tried to accomplish the same things.
          T.

          • reveil39 said

            Sounds like he put a lot of effort into it.
            Do you know by any chance if the place was cattle free as far as five years prior to the round up? Any chance of anything dormant in the soil due to freezing temperatures which might have been re-activated by the heat generated by the presence of the horses?

          • I was saying earlier today that to the best of my knowledge, no there were not any other species of livestock housed on this property prior to it becoming Broken Arrow. However, I could be wrong and so I have asked for conformation from Troy and John to verify this information. I’m also being very patient right now as I understand they probably have quite a full day’s work going on right now. Soon as I get any info I’ll let you guys know.
            T.

          • Ok, heard back from the Broken Arrow guys this evening…
            Before it was Broken Arrow USA, the grounds were actually not used for anything at all. It was “desert land” and had little to no growth on it. There were a few sage but not enough to really make a difference. The grounds did not hold any livestock – cattle or otherwise – prior to the horses gathered from Calico.
            T.

          • sandra longley said

            I think the only place in nevada that hasn’t had a cow on it might be “area 51”..maybe not recently..but at some point..there were cows on it..i will ask around town when I am there.

  6. shari welsh said

    It is unfortunate that Sharon Spier Takes The BLM on its word that horses were in poor body condition – as they were in good condition till the BLM gets ahold of them . This has been a tragic pattern. But it makes sense when you look over their history and come to the very obvious conclsion that they are exterminating these horse. Read it from their own Conqustator plan or look at all their lies and that they have caused thousands to go to slaughter -often thrtough BLM employees , sent them to horrific abuse in their buddies rodeos and to horrific abuse in slaughter houses . The horses as usual looked magnificent untill thew BLM got them. I believe they infected them with this .

    • What makes you think that she has “taken them at their word”? Dr. Sharon Spier has been involved in the wild horse issues previously and continues to be involved because of her own personal interest in their situation. She is – I dare say – as involved as you or I at this point. She frequents the blogs, she tries her best to keep up on the current issues and problems, and she does what she can as a doctor to help with information.
      The FOIA documents were in fact taken from meetings designed to find all of the reasons not to implement the euthanasia policy that had been called to the front burner for use. I’ve read those documents somewhere around 15 times at this point simply because I was so infuriated when I first received them, but then as I kept re-reading them I realized what was happening. They were trying to find all of the reasons why this was not a good idea. I later confirmed what I had found by asking the participants directly – in person, face to face – what their agendas had been during these meetings. None of the participants that I spoke with wanted anything to do with the actual act of euthanizing a healthy horse. None of them.
      No, I don’t believe that they infected the horses with this disease purposefully. To do so would simply be the last nail in their coffins. And I think they realize at this point that we are not just some internet geeks with nothing else to do with our time. We are actually some pretty dad-gum-good investigators and researchers and we are not going to let things slide like the ones before us have.
      T.

      • sandra longley said

        Not to be a jerk, but she did state she had not been to the facilities..so she is in fact taking them at their word, but i would expect she had been in contact with them

  7. LOUIE COCROFT said

    YES, ACCORDING TO THE HUMANE OBSERVERS, WHO HAD SEEN THE HORSES BEFORE THE ROUND-UP, THEY WERE IN GOOD CONDITION COMING IN. CRAIG HAD BEEN OUT ON THE RANGE PRIOR TO THE ROUND-UP, PHOTOGRAPHING SOME OF THEM. HE AND ELYSE WERE BOTH SAYING WHAT ABSOLUTELY SPLENDID CONDITION THEY WERE IN–ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THAT IT WAS IN THE DEAD OF WINTER. THERE ARE BOUND TO BE SOME OLDER HORSES, BUT EVEN DOMESTIC HORSES ARE HARD TO WINTER.

  8. shari welsh said

    I saw that BLM Susie Stokes had the gal to say that mustangs are bad mothers -this is a lie and another blatant example of BLMs HATRED FOR THESES MAGNIFICENT HORSES ! WHO WAS IT THAT RAN PREGNANT HORSES AND FOALS TO THIER DEATH AND TERRORIZED THEM WITH HELICOPTERS DRIVEN BY CONVICTED HORSSE SLAUGHTERING THIEVES ? WHO WAS IT THAT HAS STOLEN THOUSANDS OF PROTECTED HORSES HOMES BY LYING SO THEY COULD PUT 9 MILLION OF THEIR BUDDIES PRIVATELY OWNED WELFARE CATTLE ON OUR PUBLIC LANDS ? WHY DO WE HAVE CORRUPT LYING CRIMINALS WHO BRUTALIZE OUR BELOVED HORSES WORKING IN THE GOV. ? The BLM HAS ALREADY ILLEGALLY FILLED OFF OVER 100 HERDS OF WILD HORSES THEY WERE SWORN TO PROTECT- LETS CUT THE PRETENSE OF WHAT THEY ARE UP TO -WILD HORSES ALL OUT EXTERMINATION !

    • sandra longley said

      I think that is one person who made a very stupid comment..Inexcusable..The fact is that 1st time mothers can easily not accept their foals..it happens in domesticated horses..Close quarters and more aggresive mares can move in and distract the mare from bonding..I have had mares that foaled out in the pasture had their foal stolen when she laid down to pass the after birth, the interesting part of that story..my herd of about 20 mares did a better job of getting that foal away from her than I did, and when i finally caught the mother and led her and the foal across the 100 acre pasture the other 19 mares formed a semi circle around us and protected that mare and foal from the theiving mare..the whole way to the barn, and my horses are domesticated not wild..A testimony to the value of horses in a herd.

      • sandra longley said

        I forgot to say people well meaning or not are also a detriment to a mares bonding and need to stay out of the way and not interfere unless there is a problem..so I agree with not rying to move the mares with a new foal until it follows and knows its mother..I just really HATE this whole concept of how these mares are having to foal in this situation..They REALLY should have foaled out on the range before a gather-as a breeder i consider it brutal and inhumane and quite frankly disgusting..and it makes my blood boil every time I think about it.

    • “Sunshine Susie” is one of the BLM employees that we all consider to be a “bad apple”. She simply does not understand the dynamics of the situation or of the Equines themselves. This is why “Sunshine Susie” is not a very “well-liked” person (I’m being nice for the sake of the “public viewing” of this blog). Not only is she not “well-liked” by any of us, she is also not exactly “employee of the month” at the BLM either. Luckily, she does not speak for all of the BLM.
      T.

    • sandra longley said

      I agree with you there are serious problems upstairs..probably directly to Abbeys office..he spent years in Nevada picking away at the horses under the approving eyes of that state, I personally can’t think of a worse candidate to oversee the program..He has too many cattle ties and favors to return to nevada..I had too many projects going during and after the calicos to get back to that project..but I am going mining for information, and I am pretty convinced it exists in the state of Nevada..I really want a Congressional investigation into the dealings of nevada specifically on the treatment and false information and skewed figures and undisclosed evidence where it concerns the wild horses..There is plenty of it..and He said She said ain’t working for me..This needs to be fixed from the top down..I got the impression they are not all jacked up about using pzp and i want to know why????

      • sandra longley said

        I hope to meet ‘sunshine Susie” when I go down there..Maybe she needs her own reality show so she can get the attention she obviously craves..Like BLM needs a loose cannon

  9. LOUIE COCROFT said

    BAD MOTHERS???! BUT THE HERDS ARE EXPLODING???

  10. Sadly, John Neill said the same thing about many of the captive mares being “bad mothers.”

    • sandra longley said

      Sounds like there is another person who needs a bar of soap for dinner..Maybe we should show up at fallon with cases of soap. after all we the tax payers are the ones taking the bath, and we have to bring our own soap..just when I try to cut the BLM some slack at that level-a couple of cannons make a assinine remark and try to provoke people..what is it they say..horses don’t have problems..its the people who have problems..this is a good illustration..O’Neil better stick with government work-he’d never make it in the private sector horse business.

  11. LOUIE COCROFT said

    THIS WHOLE FIASCO HAS BEEN CAUSED FROM THE BEGINNING BY EVERY DECISION MADE AT THE TOP LEVEL. THEY WERE ADVISED BY THE FEDERAL JUDGE NOT TO GO AHEAD WITH THE ROUND-UP.
    ADVOCATES PLEADED WITH THEM NOT TO GO AHEAD WITH THE ROUND-UP.
    THEY WENT AHEAD WITH THE ROUND-UP.
    NOW–ONE HUNDRED AND (HOW MANY?) HORSES HAVE DIED
    HOW MANY HAVE BEEN SO BADLY INJURED THAT THEY HAD TO BE PUT DOWN?
    PIGEON FEVER–BLAME THE HORSES
    MARES FOALING IN TOTALLY UNNATURAL, CROWDED CONDITIONS–BLAME THE HORSES
    IF ALL ELSE FAILS–BLAME THE ADVOCATES.

    • Help me out on this one – I’ve been a little out of the loop over the past several days for the holiday and family coming into town…
      How are they blaming the horses for the PF? And how are they blaming us?
      T.

  12. LOUIE COCROFT said

    SANDRA, AS YOU CAN TELL–I’M NOT GIVING NOBODY, NO SLACK, NOWHERE.
    THESE ANIMALS HAVE BEEN PUT THROUGH HELL. IT COULD HAVE AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED. THEY DIDN’T AND WOULDN’T LISTEN. NONE OF THE CRITICISM IS DIRECTED AT THE WORKERS IN THE FIELD. THIS BUCK STOPS AT THE TOP.

  13. LOUIE COCROFT said

    TRACIE, I FOLLOWED A LINK AND HERE IS WHAT I FOUND:
    ………..has connections to animal cloning company Bovance. His Broken Arrow Ranch is featured on Bovance’s website for consigning a pregnancy of a genetic copy (clone) of N Bar Primrose 2424. Since DNA samples are taken from wild horses randomly at the roundup and at the holding facilities and since Bovance’s parent company, ViaGen, clones horses, what oversight is there by the BLM to protect the DNA of our wild horses?
    The Denim and Diamonds sale was topped with the pregnancy consigned by Broken Arrow Ranch at a bid of $65,000.This pregnancy was purchased by Luddington Cattle Company and Kiomichi Link.Express Angus Ranch consigned the pregnancy that was the second high-seller in the Bases Loaded sale, for a bid of $62,500 made by Tommy Turner of Waco, Texas.

    • Yea, I know… I asked Troy about it earlier when he called. He said that they had a cow (N Bar Primrose 2424) that they had bought years ago. She was a great breeder, had awesome genetics, and was just too much of an asset to the breeding programs to let go. As well, she was about 17 years old when they bought her, and they paid quite a hefty sum of money for her. Unfortunately, being 17 years old, she wasn’t around for very much longer after they bought her. So, in order to recoup some expenses and to continue her genetics in the breeding programs, they had her cloned. Simple enough.
      What I DON’T get is how the jump from a cow being cloned to cloning wild horses came together. I’m sorry, it just doesn’t make sense. The cost of cloning a cow (at the time) about $18-20k. The cost of cloning a horse was, and still is, MUCH higher… to the tune of about $150k. Add to that the fact that cloned cows are statistically much more viable pregnancies vs. a horse being pretty finicky… Just saying, that’s a pretty big freakin’ gamble for a greater chance of a failed outcome when there are literally thousands of wild horses to choose from for the bargain basement price of $125 in adoption fees.
      I’m pulling together some more info currently, but so far all of the research I’ve pulled up shows that this story line is bogus and ill-thought out.
      T.

  14. LOUIE COCROFT said

    THE BLAME SEEMS TO BE AIMED AT THE HORSES BY SAYING THAT THEY CAME IN WITH PIGEON FEVER–AND ADVOCATES ARE BLAMED FOR MAKING SUCH A FUSS ABOUT “NOTHING”–BEING “EMOTIONAL” AND “HYSTERICAL”. I DID TALK TO ONE OFFICIAL FROM THE FOREST SERVICE, AND AFTER THE INITIAL “WHO ARE YOU?” “WHAT DO YOU WANT?” “WHAT ARE YOU DOING ON MY TURF?” PART OF THE INTRODUCTION, WE DID TALK FOR QUITE A WHILE. AT THE CLOSE OF OUR CONVERSATION HE CONCEDED THAT I “DID SOUND LEVEL-HEADED”. DOES THAT MEAN THAT BECAUSE WE CARE ABOUT THESE ANIMALS THAT WE ARE NOT?

    • No, it doesn’t mean that at all. I actually had to go through the same kind of introductions when I first started TMP and began talking with more officials. It’s taken quite some time to get my credentials well-known enough that they don’t just hang up on me at first glance – so to speak. The reason is because most of the phone calls they receive in a day are from people who are on the phone for no other reason than to scream, belittle, insult, blame, and just be all around jerks. (Sorry but I gotta call ’em as I see ’em.) So the fact that you called and actually wanted to have a rational conversation with him probably took him by surprise. Don’t worry, it’s actually a compliment. 😀
      T.

  15. LOUIE COCROFT said

    TRACIE, I WASN’T REALLY TRYING TO MAKE A JUMP BETWEEN CLONING HORSES AND CLONING COWS. THERE JUST SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF BLANKS IN THE MIDDLE. WE TRIED SO HARD TO STOP THIS ROUND-UP AND WHEN THE PUBLIC WAS NOT ALLOWED TO BE THERE IN THE INITIAL PHASE OF IT, BECAUSE IT WAS HELD ON PRIVATE PROPERTY, THAT DID NOT HELP ANY OF US TO TRUST ANY OF THIS. MY CONCERN IS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN WHAT HAPPENS TO THE HORSES. I WOULD HAVE FELT A LITTLE BETTER HAD THERE BEEN SOME OPENESS AND WILLINGNESS TO LET AT LEAST SOME OBSERVERS BE THERE. HOW CAN ANYONE MONITOR ANYTHING WHEN THE RULES KEEP THEM OUT–EXCEPT WHEN THE KEEPER ALLOWS?

  16. LOUIE COCROFT said

    SANDRA, THAT IS MY THOUGHT. WHAT KIND OF RANCH HAS NOTHING ON IT? GUESS IT IS JUST MY NATURE TO ASK QUESTIONS, ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE IS SO MUCH AT STAKE.

    • sandra longley said

      I ask alot of questions too Louie..I keep moving the pieces around until I get a picture that fits..question, why does a rancher who has cattle buy a ranch and put no cattle on it??? I am currently looking for the executed contract..I have a legal background that requires proof or I am not satisfied.

  17. sandra longley said

    The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) has a requirement for hoof trimming of up to 2,800 wild horses for the base year and up to 5,600 horses in option years one through four at the BLM-contracted corrals in Fallon, Nevada. The period of performance will be 3/3/2010 3/01/2011, with four additional one-year option periods. The following is an overview of the requirement: Wild Horses are held at the BLM Facility at 5676 Indian Lakes Rd, Fallon, Nevada 89406. The BLM has the need for hoof trimming services of these horses. The contractor must have the knowledge and skill to trim wild horses and burros hooves with minimal stress and injury to the animals. The contractor must be able to work effectively with BLM wranglers to efficiently trim wild horses and burros hooves. The contractor must be available to work full days and trim up to 60 animals per day at the holding corrals located in Fallon, Nevada. Hooves can be trimmed with an electrical powered and/or cordless (with battery pack) angle grinder compatible with an aluminum flat disc with carbide teeth, and/or an aluminum oxide abrasive pad. All trimming will be conducted with the animal secured in a hydraulic tilt chute. This is not intended to be a complete list of the specifications. The full requirement will be posted in solicitation L10PS001776, which will be available at http://www.fedconnect.net on or about December 14, 2009. This requirement is 100% set aside for small businesses under NAICS 115210. Hard copies of the solicitation will not be provided. Vendors must be registered at http://www.ccr.gov to be considered for award.
    Set-aside code: Total Small Business
    Contact: Santoro, Steven 303-236-3518 303-236-3518 , ssantoro@blm.gov
    The most important thing I found in this government contract is the additional horses projected for the next following 4 years-5600 horses at this facility..I guess that those numbers are predetermined far in advance????

  18. LOUIE COCROFT said

    SANDRA, YOU HIT ON IT AGAIN. I WAS THINKING, THAT IS A 5 YEAR CONTRACT.
    GOOD LORD–ELECTRICAL POWERED ANGLE GRINDER? HYDRAULIC TILT CHUTE? MINIMUM STRESS?

    • This is not what wild horses and burros need in the wild. This is a stupid alternative to freedom. If you do not like where they are, BLM, do not incarcerate them, give them freedom on the lands given them and reduce the budget accordingly! mar

    • sandra longley said

      yeah Louie, sounds like a job for a logger not a farrier..I am looking for an executed contract that will show me how much money is being allocated for the farrier/logger..

  19. What a shame so many of these horses have been yanked out of their natural habitats at this critical stage just before giving birth and then crowded together. This is a sure prescription for the level of abortions, suffering, decline and death that we are witnessing now at the new Broken Arrow wild horse holding facility north of Fallon, Nevada

    • BLM put the lives of our wild horses and burros up against a wall; we came along and we put BLM up against a wall and ourselves in the middle. Now is the time to do all we can to resolve the issues and STOP the roundups and free our wild ones. There is no time left. This is it.
      Lawsuits, information gathering, observation and documentation, press and public education, keep it all happening, stay on this. Find people to talk to and keep in touch with all representatives and call and email the White House and all responsible at BLM and DOI. This time the wild ones win… mar

  20. sandra longley said

    Read both Humane society reports from the facility, from 2 visits, first feb 13th second March 6, NOWHERE…a mention of pigeon fever outbreak, no input about horses coming into the facility with it or previous scars from it.These 2 reports are listed under points of interest and you should all read them..alot of things were noted and commented on..but not this..????

  21. reveil39 said

    Anyone working to build the holding pen could have brought in the disease (with their boots or tools) which would then been dormant until the roundups.

    • Yep, that is certainly true.. mar

    • sandra longley said

      As someone else pointed out..it could have been in the transport trailers, it could have been on the portable facilities they use to trap horses or gotten from the domestic horses you see at the gather sites or the judas horse-the timing seems to put it from one of these sources rather than they brought it in themselves.

      • That was me. And it seems if you do a timeline the one common denominator is the Cattoor presence from MacCullough Peaks roundup in Mid October to the stealth round up in November in CA to the site of the capture in the Calico Complex. I do not know if the MacCullough Peaks horses were affected at the Rock Springs facility after they were dropped there by the Cattoor trucks but you did say that Wyoming had a statewide incidence of PF in the Fall of 09. mar

        • sandra longley said

          Yes it was state wide in WYO, with over 100 reported cases in Cheyenne alone, and many go unreported. where ever you have large gatherings of horses like rodeos horse shows and cuttings there are horses being hauled in from other states..most horses tho..are not being exhibited or competed on if they have abcesses obviously.

  22. LOUIE COCROFT said

    CRAIG, GLAD TO SEE YOU ON THE BLOG! COULD YOU TELL US A BIT ABOUT RESERVE DESIGN? IT WOULD HELP US TO UNDERSTAND WHEN WE ASK FOR A CHANGE IN POLICY. WE HAVE BEEN TELLING WHAT WE DON’T WANT–WE NEED TO GIVE THEM A SOLUTION THAT WE DO WANT.

    • sandra longley said

      http://www.examiner.com/x-25094-LA-Equine-Policy-Examiner~y2010m4d6-BLM-envisions-tristate-mega-complex-for-wild-horses

      This is an idea from the blm you probably want to read.

      • So I got this link the other day, and I am just now getting to do anything more than skim over it. From what I can see so far, it actually looks like a step in the right direction. These HMA’s boundaries are so “non-existent” in the eyes of the horses that it really doesn’t make any sense to have them to begin with. They have already shown consistently that their migratory habits have them moving across to California from the Calico Complex. They did it during this last gather and the one back in 2005. I think if the offices work together cohesively and not “conflictingly” (<- I don't even think that's a real word but oh well) then I think they could manage the area and it's herds more effectively. This of course would also give reason for a revision of the AMLs. That's where I get nervous. I will definately be keeping my eye on this issue and its progress.
        T.

        • sandra longley said

          I just want to make sure as this conversation unfolds-that we keep our eyes peeled for a trojan horse..The loss of funding for the current program and political pressure to do something different probably has an impetous for this discussion..the handwriting on the wall.

  23. LOUIE COCROFT said

    ONE OF OUR PEOPLE ON THE CLOUD FOUNDATION GOT AN EMAIL FROM A FRIEND WHO TOLD HER THAT THERE IS AN AUCTION GOING TO BE HELD AT ROCK SPRINGS–WHERE IS THAT? THEY ARE THINKING THAT THERE ARE GOING TO BE KILLER BUYERS THERE. BETTER GO CHECK. IT IS ON THE PIGEON FEVER UPDATE POST. WILL TRY TO PULL IT FORWARD SO THAT EVERYONE SEES IT.

    • Louie, whoa… there is an adoption for the MacCullough Peaks horses April 9-10 in Powell Wyoming. The older horses at Rock Springs from this roundup last October will be forsale but maybe not moved to Powell but will be moved from Rock Springs as they will clear horses there for New Wyoming Roundups just as they are doing in Palomino Valley; they will move horses from there to LTH to have the Calico Adoption.. Horses will be moving all over. Horses are also forsale ALL the time and you know as well as I do some get bought by KB. They will not be showing up at an adoption. They do not have to. mar

  24. LOUIE COCROFT said

    MAR, HERE IS THE REST OF THE LETTER–JANET POSTED IT:

    1. Please read this — it came to me via email yesterday. (This is from another advocate)
    “I was told today that the horses in holding at Rock Springs are disappearing, their number decreasing and that trucks are coming and going. There are many sale authority horses there. They are being sold to kill buyers and/or they are going to the new facilities to make room for the new roundup captives that are coming. I just wish someone could document this and stop it. No one buys mustangs by the truck load but kill buyers. I am so upset by this. I knew it and I know it is happening elsewhere. What do we do?? They lie about this. They were told not to do it and they are. I feel so helpless and i am terrified for them. Good horses die that should be free or being gentled for people to ride and love. I know you worry. I am not wanting to upset you. If you have been in touch with Mary Landrieu’s office you should tell them about this. They must act. BLM has transport papers for horses, also. To move horses from Palomino Valley to new holding further east. All this movement of horses needs to be documented and compared. We knew this would be going on yet what can we do when those who have the power to investigate do not? Please contact Mary Landrieu if you have before… please do it again.”

    • Yes, Louie, I ought to know… but there is no auction where kill buyers will be!!! please be careful how you put things… mar

      • reveil39 said

        Dear Friends,
        I received an email last night from Judy Barnes with the Spirit of the Wild Horse Foundation. Please read below and help save these magnificent animals. -Madeleine

        This stallion and his mares were rounded up by a local rancher in San Luis, Co and they will be going to the sale barn on Thursday April 8 and most likely the slaughter house. The rancher had told Judy Barnes with the Spirit of the Wild Horse Foundation that she could have the stallion back but is not returning her calls. She asked for the mares also, since he will not stay in a new location without his mares. Judy has purchased 30 wild horses from this guy so far in the last 3 years to release back to the wild. This stallion is amazing, his name is Jet. Judy Barnes has been photographing his for 8 years. Judy has contacted the US Marshal, BLM and the branding inspector and nobody will do anything.
        Judy is working with the land owner and the local sheriff. The negotiations have stalled and at this point the only way to get the horses back will be to buy them. If the rancher does not contact her today, she will be at the sale barn in Monte Vista, CO tomorrow, April 8 with the branding inspector and photos of the horses. The branding inspector is checking with the main office in Denver to see what else can be done. If the sheriff does anything before Judy can locate where the horses are being hidden, she’s afraid the horses will be destroyed to get rid of evidence. Judy thinks she can get the mares for a couple hundred each, and the stallion for five hundred, but she don’t know how many he has, and many of the mares are ready to foal. Its possible he has about 30 horses. Judy Barnes has requests out for donations from foundation supporters.
        Any help is greatly appreciated, donations are tax deductible. Spirit of the Wild Horse Foundation is a non-profit for the Preservation and Protection of Wild Horses. She is also getting a PayPal account set up for the foundation.
        The foundation can accept Visa & MC or checks can be mailed to:
        Spirit of the Wild Horse Foundation
        PO Box 100
        Costilla, NM 87524

        Or contact the bank direct:
        Community Banks of Colorado 719-672-3338
        Account Name is Spirit of the Wild Horse Foundation
        Contact Phone Numbers: Office 719-206-2749 Cell 719-480-0262
        (Anyone making a donation will receive an 8×11 photograph of Jet.)

        JudyBarnesPhotography.com Spirit of the Wild Horse Foundation
        Post Office Box 100 Costilla, NM 87524
        719.206.2749

        • Supporters wishing contact Judy by phone will likely not be successful today or for the rest of this week due to the fact that she is working so hard on this operation. If communications are not of an urgent necessity, please use the website for contact. We greatly appreciate your support and will do our best to keep everyone updated on this situation. Thank you, T. @ The Mustang Project

        • sandra longley said

          I am looking for a website and cannot find one..How is it that this rancher can remove and sell wild horses-even if they are on his property? I need more information, are these forest service wild horses or Blm or what?

        • Re-posting info from email from Mar…
          Hi friends, This evening I called Judy Barnes about the Stallion and mares that a rancher had rounded up off private property (not his) and held captive all week for ransom, while Judy negotiated and found the land owner who himself called the sheriff. She spent today searching the stock yards at a sale barn and met the owners and people who work the chutes and showed them photos and told them the story. The Brand Inspector and the Sheriff being present and available to help her if she found them. She used binoculars and surveyed trucks and pens but none of her herd was found. The people there now know what the horses look like. While in Monte Vista she met a neighbor of the rancher/horsenapper who told her she had seen the Stallion standing in the back of a trailer for at least two days. This is terrible abusive treatment of a wild horse. She continued the search on the back roads. She saw many horses she knew and will be talking to the sheriff again in hopes she will be able to prevent the horsenapper from ever rounding up the local horses again. She will have a wild horse tour out on Saturday as it is scheduled and this is one of the things she does for awareness and education. Eco-Tours! Then, if she has not found the horses by Sunday, Roger and I will go down with one of our pickups and help her get further out and look. We used to live just south in Taos County, NM. I am sorry that the horses are as yet unaccounted for. Again, all we can do is hope for the best outcome. Judy said she knew people were sending goodness and love her way and to the horses. Tonight she will answer emails. mar

        • Another re-posting…
          Thank you all for your support and encouragement, I know Jet can feel it too.
          The rancher called and said there were no wild mares with Jet, that all the mares were his. I offered to buy them, and again he said no wild mares. If he had wild mares he would have come around for money. He told me he released Jet on Tuesday night. I spent 5 hours yesterday and 4 hours today, before and after the sale, looking for him. I have to believe he is out there.
          I went to the sale barn anyway, Jet’s picture is now hanging in the office. I met the owner, branding inspector and sheriff and everyone is on the lookout for him. One person I met actually works for this ranchers family. She is going to be my spy, she knows the stallion. She told me Jet was left in a trailer in front of the house for two days.
          I can feel Jet’s energy and it is very low, his spirit is going to take some time to recover. I feel that he may be hiding out in the back country while he heals his mind, body and soul. I will be back out there on Saturday with a tour and then again on Sunday.
          Thank you everyone for all the support and offers of money, when this started I felt over whelmed and didn’t know what I was going to do. But now I know I have a great support team. I love this horse and I’m not giving up on him. I know he may never be the same but he is free and that’s what is important.
          Tomorrow I will be talking to the land owner and the sheriff and see what the next step is going to be. I will keep everyone updated as this progresses. Especially when Jet is sited. I attached some of my favorite pictures of Jet.

          Bless you all,
          Judy

          • As of Sunday morning Judy said the mares are found and OK and she spent much time looking Sat for Jet. She believes he will make his way to the mares. She has a different band of horses in her yard and one foaled on Sunday! Things are looking up and she will keep watch for Jet. When he is seen I will post… mar

    • I would like to know… “They are being sold to kill buyers and/or they are going to the new facilities to make room for the new roundup captives that are coming.” Where did this information come from? Is it something that is fact, or it is speculation? I ask because when comments like these are made without any concrete evidence backing them up, it creates a state of “panic” almost. This makes for some very frantic advocates who spend their time on wild goose chases only to find that there wasn’t anything to chase to begin with. That’s time, energy and resources taken away from the issues and problems that are factual and desparately need our time, energy and resources to solve them.
      If this is in fact a real issue, please – PLEASE – get whatever information you can so that we can initiate preventive measures. If not, then I can’t waste time on it that the horses don’t have to waste.
      T.

  25. LOUIE COCROFT said

    THIS WAS POSTED ON AN OLDER THREAD AND I DON’T THINK ANYONE IS SEEING IT. I SENT IT ON TO EVERYONE THAT I COULD.

  26. LOUIE COCROFT said

    MAR, OK. SORRY. I WAS THINKING ABOUT THOSE HORSES THAT WERE MENTIONED EARLIER–THE GATHER IN ROCK SPRINGS. THEY SEEMED TO HAVE DISAPPEARED OFF OF THE RADAR. I JUST DIDN’T WANT AN S.O.S. TO GO UNHEARD.

    • No, Do Not Relax!! There just is not an auction with kill buyers… there ARE horses being SOLD to kill buyers and it needs to be stopped. There are two sources of info from the site which is why it is reliable info. Just because you think I am the source don’t think there is nothing happening. Please…mar

  27. LOUIE COCROFT said

    I THOUGHT THAT SOMEONE LIVING IN THE AREA MIGHT BE KNOWING AND SEEING MORE THAN THE REST OF US. AS LONG AS ALL OF YOU AREN’T WORRIED, I GUESS I CAN RELAX.

    • No… Don’t relax just yet. As I replied above, if this is in fact an issue happening at a specific adoption event or auction, then please – by all means – let us know so that we can initiate preventative measures (advocates to attend the events, calling the KBs out on the mat, using the legal system, etc).
      T.

  28. LOUIE COCROFT said

    SANDRA, I PULLED UP THE LINK THAT YOU POSTED AND READ. I LEAN TO THE SIDE OF CAUTION–WOULD REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE OLDER, TRUSTED VETERANS THINK–THEY WOULD KNOW BETTER THAN ANY WHAT IS BEST FOR THE HORSES. I WON’T REST UNTIL THE ROUND-UPS ARE STOPPED.

    • sandra longley said

      This was just a comment by Gene..not a proposal..we are a long way from that discussion..my concern is to make sure it actually benifits the horses in the short and long run and not box them into a corner that no one saw coming….

  29. LOUIE COCROFT said

    I HAVE BEEN WILLING TO LOOK STUPID FOR LESSER THINGS–I CALLED THE GOVERNOR’S OFFICE IN MONTANA DURING THE PRYOR MT. ROUND-UP—ONLY TO FIND OUT LATER THAT HE HAD SIGNED THE PRO-SLAUGHTER BILL. I KNOW THAT WYOMING HAS A PRO-SLAUGHTER REPRESENTATIVE THAT IS PUSHING IT AND THAT A LOT OF STATES ARE RAMPING UP. IT JUST SEEMS THAT ONCE A TRUCK LOADED WITH HORSES LEAVES A FACILITY THERE IS NO TRACKING THEM.

    • sandra longley said

      There is nothing stupid about it Louie, It has happened before when no one thought it could or would…better to look stupid than sit on our butts and be stupid..questions are never stupid

  30. LOUIE COCROFT said

    THE INFO THAT REVEIL 39 POSTED CAME FROM MADELEINE PICKEN’S WEBSITE.

  31. LOUIE COCROFT said

    FOR ANYONE WHO HASN’T ALREADY READ IT, THERE IS A LETTER ON THE “SAVE OUR WILD HORSES” BLOG–YOU CAN ACCESS THE BLOG FROM THE CLOUD FOUNDATION BLOGROLL. GO TO THE CATAGORY “RESOURCES”. IT’S AT THE TOP RIGHT COLUMN. LETTER FROM GEORGE KNAPP. IN 2007 130 HORSES DIED AT ONE OF THE NEVADA FACILITIES–THEY CLAIMED IT WAS SALMONELLA–ALL WILD HORSES CARRY IT. READ WHAT GEORGE HAS TO SAY. SURE SEEMS RELEVANT.

  32. LOUIE COCROFT said

    SANDRA, IF YOU’RE NOT ALREADY ON YOUR WAY TO WYOMING OR COLORADO TO CHECK THINGS OUT FOR YOURSELF–YOU WILL APPRECIATE GEORGE’S LETTER.

  33. LOUIE COCROFT said

    MAR, I THINK YOU HAVE TO GO TO THE HEADING AT THE TOP (THERE ARE SIX). TRY THE ONE THAT SAYS BLM, BUT I THINK ANY WILL DO. THEN IT PUTS YOU ONTO THE PAGE THAT SHOWS THE “NAVIGATE COLUMN” ON THE LEFT. THEN YOU CLICK ONTO “RESOURCES”.
    GEORGE’S LETTER OR STATEMENT WAS WRITTEN IN 2007, BUT SEEMS TO ME IT COULD JUST AS EASILY APPLY TO THE PRESENT SITUATION.

  34. sandra longley said

    http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/wyoming/article_5ee65164-45c0-11df-8e25-001cc4c002e0.html

    the BLM estimates they are 1 horse over ALM and want to do another roundup..SERIOUSLY..they have gone mad with the tax payers dollars..we need more petitions to congress and the appropriations comittee to pull the plug on this organization of idiots..WE WILL NOT PAY FOR THIS ANYMORE!

  35. LOUIE COCROFT said

    MAR, THANK YOU FOR THE UPDATE ON FROM JUDY. DO YOU GO OUT LOOKING FOR THEM ON HORSEBACK?

    • I wish, Louie… but because Judy slowed down on Sunday, and was around for a new foal, we didn’t have to drive the 260 mile round trip. If Jet doesn’t show soon we will go and use my pickup if she wants. I will likely call her tonight. If I do not hear from her I will call. mar

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