The ~Texas~ Mustang Project's Blog

Working for better management options and cohabitation through compromise and communication for the American Wild Mustang

An Interesting Line of Thought This Morning… June 23, 2010

Posted by Texas Mustang Project on June 23, 2010


An interesting line of thought this morning:
*What specific month & year did Cheney/Bush pass the energy ‘reform’ policy that’s in place currently?
*How many acres were designated HMAs & HAs at that time?
*How many of those acres actually had wild horses & burros roaming free at that time?
*How many of those HMAs & HAs have been zeroed out since that time?
*How many of those HMAs & HAs had ROWs on them during that specific month & year?
*How many of those HMAs & HAs had active, under construction, or proposed energy projects on them during that specific month & year?
*How many of those HMAs & HAs have active, under construction, or proposed energy projects on them currently?
MF*T*

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22 Responses to “An Interesting Line of Thought This Morning… June 23, 2010”

  1. betty said

    just for curiosity I looked up some of these figures on the BLM website starting in 2005 Interestingly I found that land trasnsferred from BLM to another agency (and no longer used for wild horses) is not taken from the HA acreage.
    also the target herd numbers in 2005 was 28,156 and in 2007 it was 27492. their figures show that 11,023 horses were rounded up in 2005 and 5701 of those were adopted but ther excess numbers of horses on the range by their figures were only 3604. Interesting!

  2. Jan said

    it was in 2004 that burns of montana urged by harry reid of nevada – buddy of salazar – added a rider to that bill allowing the blm to round up horses – and many were sent to slaughter in 2005 because bush signed that bill and the rest of congress did not know about the rider that burns had slipped into the bill – i doubt if cheney or bush read the bill before signing it

    somewhere along in 2005 or 2006 – someone found out mustangs that were already rounded up were being sent to slaughter and people started protesting but the general public did not know unil 2009 when cloud was slated for roundup again that the word got out and people found out the truth of what the blm was actually doing and under salazar more horses were being rounded up – thru the efforts of some highly placed people – owner of barbaro race horse and others the horse slaughter plants in usa were closed – think u can find most of this online – so it was really under bush that the horses were put in peril and salazar just hastened it along when he came to power

  3. Jan said

    oh yes who did bush and cheny support the most – oil and cattle

  4. sandra longley said

    This is where it started..anytime there are ‘secret” meetings, especially between private industry and government..and NO FOIA..because it is deemed “national security issue” you know there is trouble…

    http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/06/dick-cheney-bp-spill

    • sandra longley said

      Above article gives you timelines..what we need are internal documents from the BLM and DOI starting in 2002..now that the public is starting to refocus on these meetings(I was focused at the time..as I said before..I always smell a skunk before I see it)I was hopping mad and scared at the same time..Whereas Cheney was NOT focused on green energy projects but oil and Natural gas..but mostly oil..his baby..he created the “policy” that is being implemented today..it serves Salazars purposes to fast track green energy and new transmission lines…Which in and of itself I have always supported as a means to get off oil as a primary source of energy for all the reasons we know..this administration has slow tracked these oil leases on land..but bought into the philosopy..ocean drilling is soooo much safer now..and technology is so much more advanced..well yeah, IF you use it…fast tracking is one of those Red Alert words..and we and the wild horses are living proof of that.

      • sandra longley said

        and then we get to 2005 when the massive rounups began..what were their plans..adopt and kill apparently..in 2008 came the BLM secret meetings where alternative management options was developed…those 2 documents are important to read again in relationship to today to see and understand the mindset of where they were going with this..I think the “meetings” document is more informitive to that state of mind than the completed document..I was horrified..yes, congress stepped in and stopped the slaughtering..but not the rest of those proposals

  5. Linda said

    Curious “Mr. Halliburton” Cheney hasn’t been seen much lately. For a while he was setting the airwaves abuzz with his inflamatory rhetoric, but since the Gulf he seems to be MIA.

  6. ppjg said

    We have been doing extensive research on the PPJ Gazette about the sale, resale, and sell again policy of BLM regarding public lands. Using the “Presumtpion of Power” that the USDA and FDA are now currently trying to employ, BLM claims it has the “power” to dispose of state owned assets (horses) under their own self-granted power called the “multiple use” doctrine.

    The BLM was created by proclamation… There is not a plausible enacting statute or enabling reference that justifies the existence of or the expansion of this agency. The 1906 Antiquities Act is claimed as the justification, but is only 296 words regarding establishment and protection of national monuments and hsitoric sites.

    We need to be challenging the very existence of this agency.

    Marti/PPJ

    • sandra longley said

      http://vlex.com/vid/american-horse-protection-watt-interior-37002330

      This is the only case i have run across so far that dealt with the BLM and the issue and application of the “multiple use” principle..In a long and well researched and thought out this dissenting opinion really took it apart..and a dissenting opinion cares legal wieght in an argument..but this is a legal argument that can be developed on..the judge showed us the path to pursue to challenge it.
      Every legal opinion I have read says the BLM does NOT own the wild horses, but holds them in trust for the american people..Glad to hear you have an angle you are working..I will start checking your website for info..keep up the good work!!

      • Roxy said

        I read to slow for that one (product of reading blue prints for errors and code revisions for too many years) and don’t comprehend that particular language. I will have to take your word for your conclusion and leave that fight for you.

        Maybe in 5 years I’ll be up to snuff.

  7. leslie peeples said

    Ok, I could be a little slow here but can you be more direct, what exactly are you pointing out?

    • Roxy said

      Leslie, Who are you addressing? PPjg, Linda or Sandra or other?

      A PS to Sandra, if we take these timelines, with links to each applicable document, as you state, and additional links to Articles and further evidence, I belive we would start to see even more alarming and provable patterns.

      I’m all about lists, line everything up in columns and start disecting them – tie crossovers together with red string – its the “visual” that works just like a road map. ITS AMAZING WHAT GETS DONE.

      Moving horses around, moving land sales around, I wonder what will be found out next?

      This is all getting better than a Russel Crow or Matt Damon action flick! And we are living this history!

      • Roxy,
        I love it! This is the general concept behind the questions I posted this morning. The timeline has always been an interesting factoid for me simply because you can trace every single step through them. Furthermore, tracing these steps shows just exactly what the root cause of the problem is.
        I work in Industrial Safety (no, not my preferred job, but the one that pays the bills while LLEI is off-season). We have something called a “Tap Root Investigation” whenever there is an incident of any kind on our jobsite. The purpose of this Tap Root is to get to the bottom line: What was the root cause of the incident?
        It is not meant to lay blame, nor is it meant to find the right person to fire. It is exactly what it’s name implies: Follow the branches of the tree down to the trunk (asking why) , but don’t stop there; keep going down to the roots until you tap them and wring out all of the possible causes.
        There is a beginning and an end to everything, and for every action there is a reaction. In Safety, typically we have to start at the end (the incident) and work our way back to the beginning (the root cause). Equally, we start with the reaction (again, the incident) and work our way back through to the action (what started the domino effect leading up to the incident).
        Following this same train of thought, apply the “Tap Root Investigation” to the WH&B issues we are currently facing. As you stated, dissect everything!
        And yea, this is sooooo much better than an action flick and is sooooo much living the history!
        T.

      • sandra longley said

        Starting to make Watergate look like just stealing crayons…

        • Roxy said

          Sandra, Watergate – too funny! If it weren’t so serious that is.

          TMP (is that ok to call you that?), Fire departments (I’m fire protection/building code/planning background) use the tree/root too for incidents that did not go quite according to plan.

          I’ve been in three complete department reorganizations, one that crossed several department lines, and a few smaller “in department team” CQI things – love that stuff, you can get so much done with no blame, no bad ideas, none of the usual school yard pecking order – concensus – I was chomping at the bit watching the Workshop saying “get a big blue cloth and pass around 3 X 5s !!!!!”. But they seemed to do good (little I watched couldn’t get into hearing only a few words here and there).

  8. Roxy said

    “Down with secret meeetings!”

    Other than national security does anything ever good come from them? Not in my long politically tied, para military, regulatory and equally private sector life time.

    And even national security has been excessivly expanded under Cheney Bush under the Patriot Act and Homeland Security. Which someone pointed out to me are right out of the Nazi handbook. Just saying….

    Notice I put Cheney before Bush? The real unelected president of the United States of Halliburton.

    I’m an angry middle (ok a little more than that) aged woman – hear me roar!

    • sandra longley said

      I agree, Cheney was the power behind the throne, Bush thought he was going to spend 4 years in crawford just showing up for state functions..before 911, he had spent more time out of washington at his ranch than any other president, running his “chainsaw”..it used to PO me when people said he was a cowboy..he admitted he didn’t ride a horse..just had a big hat and a” ya all” Cheny was one scary dude for a democracy..got me rejuvenated back into politics…

      • Anonymous said

        Boring anecdotal comment…Sin Loi…..

        Sandra…just got around to reading all the recent posts and comments today. Unfortunately other pressing matters have occupied my time. I am sorry about that….but I couldn’t resist commenting on this one.

        Anyway, your comment on Cheney is quite spot on, and I presume you know he dates back to Nixon’s administration.

        Fact is, when I make reference to the “institutionalized” Beltway denizens, it is Cheney and others much like him, in both parties that I am referring to…and in his case he rose to the office of VP no less.

        This “layer” of executives never go away administration to administration, they may morph in to the private sector, leveraging their influence, for a time, but always return to the public power center. The layers just below the secretariat levels and above the civil service levels just remain without interruption, merely switching allegiances as necessary.

        These folks are the policy makers, the procedure definers, and they are the ones most difficult to “reach” by John or Jane Doe. They see the allegiances as devoted to an administration, any administration….not to the constituent public. I actually have come to believe they do not even know when they are lying or misinforming. They insist all data forwarded up a chain be so distilled as to be innocuous drivel of “bullets” on a chart…on which they make “decisions.” They are in effect almost untouchable.

        Add to that condition a very cynical polarized Congress such as we have today, and the situation is almost the perfect storm. In my “federal career,” such as it was, only part of my military, private sector, government life, I was a “whistle-blower” 3 times (not going to reveal details for obvious reasons) and even though successful, I barely made a dent in it all…barely even a tiny ding. It’s like punching a tar baby to draw an apt analogy.

        The Internet has radically changed the venue now, and a lot of “dings” may make a difference where individuals alone could not, on a wide scale anyway. For one thing absolute confidentiality is less a concern. I survived my efforts, but barely. I paid a price in grade elevation I assure you and in my last “chess move” I expended about $500 per month for the rest of my life in retirement. When you call a bluff, there sometimes is a price. As far as I am concerned it was worth it. I won…at least on local important issues.

        All this said, one of the reasons (among many) I support *T* and this effort here, is that all of you who (including you, Louie 🙂 participate, is because I believe you are all serious and sincere…and that you can have a greater impact because you are not all acting alone.

  9. LOUIE COCROFT said

    SANDRA, YOU’RE NOT THE ONLY ONE.

  10. sandra longley said

    August 8, 2005. energy bill signed into law, this is what the bill contained:

    http://www.citizen.org/cmep/article_redirect.cfm?ID=13980

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