The ~Texas~ Mustang Project's Blog

Working for better management options and cohabitation through compromise and communication for the American Wild Mustang

WH&B Articles from the Toiyabe Chapter of the Sierra Club…

Posted by Texas Mustang Project on March 22, 2010


Some of these are repeats, but some are new. Figured I’d put all of ’em here for you guys to check out. Some of these are actually pretty interesting. Give it a shot, you might be surprised.

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25 Responses to “WH&B Articles from the Toiyabe Chapter of the Sierra Club…”

  1. jan said

    i am really upset with the sierra club who believe the blm lies that wild horses are damaging the grazing areas of public lands – there are hardly any horses left and its cattle and sheep that damage and destroy native plants and not the horses but the sierra club dont want to learn the truth

    • Jan,
      I can understand your frustration. The Toiyabe Chapter of the Sierra Club is the only one that I have spoken with personally, and I have not researched any other chapter as of yet. From what I can see so far, they do their own studies of the lands. They don’t depend upon the BLM’s studies. Their members are ecologists, geologists, and biologists and all other sorts of “-ists”. It is they who do most of the “dirty work”, if you’ll pardon the pun LOL.
      I particularly liked their letter in Jun 2009 opposing the ROAM Act because of the breakdown of their reasons – science, not just opinion.
      T.

      • sandra longley said

        just from a quick first read of their response to 1018..They state in section d…the blm has NEVER used its authority to slaughter horses..and so no reason to believe they ever will..That shows a complete lack of minimal research..The BLM has been stopped on more than one occassion in their pursuit of slaughtering the wild horses…as recently as the bush administration…Public and congressional outrage stopped it…we all know and has been verified horses continue to go to slaughter..and you can bet your booty…Salazar is going to pull that back out of his bag of tricks, if funding is cut off for his sanctuarys in the mid west..Its one of those things that keeps me on edge. I am expecting some type of political blackmail..Also stated..there is no other method for counting horses…they need to read the USGS…as does everyone..I am tired of repeating it..Birth control is too expensive and not effective…wrong again..its only not effective if you don’t use it…By and large, I can see where this chapter could use a discussion with a panel of wild horse advocates and researchers, we could use the benifit of their input on the scientific study of sage grouse, and we could give the benifit of our research and what we have in mind for the future of the WH&B..I see a real need to form an education group to travel to these groups..I would like to point out to them..the greatest threat to the sage grouse..has been the wildfires in that part of Nevada..and removing the wild horses in huge numbers is going to have a direct impact on increasing wild fires.

    • One more point… I don’t agree with every position they have taken. I think some of them are a little one-sided personally. However, it is likely that they feel the same way about all of us. The information from the links above were intended for review to ascertain what exactly their positions are on the fronts that we are currently involved with. There may be a possibility for partnership with them – or at least some members individually – who are working towards the same goal as we are. The more the better.
      T.

  2. LOUIE COCROFT said

    THERE ARE A LOT OF STATISTICS DONE BY CINDY MACDONALD ON THE AMERICAN HERDS WEBSITE. THEY SHOW STATE BY STATE COMPARISONS OF WILD HORSES TO DEER, ANTELOPE AND BIGHORN SHEEP. FOR THOSE THAT HAVEN’T SEEN THESE, IT WOULD BE GOOD TO JOG OVER AND LOOK AT THEM.

    • sandra longley said

      I am so frustrated Louie…There are 88,000 sage grouse in Nevada..they still issue hunting permits in the other half of the state..They are NOT going to get them listed as an endangered species..why??/because that would totally screw up fasttracking the hundreds of energy leases..and ah, yes,-the ruby pipeline..
      I have no idea how many pigmy rabbits there are in Nevada…very possible that T hit 1 or 2 while in nevada…LOL…and trust me..I love the rabbits…I cutivated them when I was camped out side of elko…they came by the hudreds to my campsite every night for carrots by the bag I would toss out for them…cottontails and jack rabbits..I am a lover of all wildlife..will only kill to protect my animals..I am sick of horses being called feral…they irritated me with that…and the constant assertion about this ‘epidemic” of domesticated horses being turned lose on public lands…is folklore…and is self limiting…they are very unlikely to survive if turned out.

  3. sandra longley said

    I would like to point out-the sage grouse and all other wildlife are allowed to roam all private and public lands in this country…Whereas the wild horses are restricted to areas, and many of those habitats are some of the least able to allow for their survival.

  4. LOUIE COCROFT said

    SANDRA, HOW DO THEY COUNT THE SAGE GROUSE?

    • sandra longley said

      I don’t know how…but I sure hope they don’t have the BLM doing it..I know..I am picking on them..but only as an organization..there are plenty that can count..maybe there are just too many counting..I don’t get the same numbers in 2 different places..it is hard to form a concrete thought without concrete info.

  5. LOUIE COCROFT said

    SANDRA, I FEEL THE SAME AS YOU(THERE’S THAT WORD–FEEL–EMOTION). WHILE WE ARE TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO HELP–THE HORSES ARE STILL BEING PUT THROUGH GOD KNOWS WHAT. I WAKE UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT THINKING ABOUT IT. I REALLY THINK THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE LEGAL PROSECUTION OF SOME HIGH LEVEL OFFICIALS–THE ONES RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ORDERS GIVEN. THEY ARE BASICALLY GIVING THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES “THE FINGER” AND THE LAW OF THE LAND IS NOT BEING OBEYED. IT IS AGAINST FEDERAL LAW TO EVEN TAMPER WITH A MAILBOX. IT STATES, CLEARLY, THAT AIRCRAFT ARE NOT TO BE USED.

    • sandra longley said

      Louie I am proud that we “feel”. I do not ever apologize for the emotion I feel toward the horses wildlife or land. It makes me the person I am – a pain in the butt, but someone I can smile at in the mirror. Its only if our emotions get in the way of our helping the horses – then it becomes a negative. The angrier I get the more determined I am. And the more I research to get to the answers.

  6. LOUIE COCROFT said

    SANDRA, HAVE YOU READ THE INSIDE DOCUMENTS THAT WERE OBTAINED UNDER THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT? THEY ARE POSTED ON SEVERAL WEBSITES.

  7. LOUIE COCROFT said

    THERE IS A LAW FIRM THAT TOOK THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS TO COURT AFTER THE DISASTER OF HURRICANE KATRINA–THEY WON A HUGE SETTLEMENT FOR THE PEOPLE. I LISTENED TO THE LAWYER ON THE RADIO.

  8. LOUIE COCROFT said

    HORSE RUSTLING IS STILL A CRIME ISN’T IT?–THEY ARE TAKING THE AMERICAN PUBLIC’S HORSES AND BURROS.

    • sandra longley said

      I am going to do some research Louie and get the actually wording…but my sense is that public properties are held in “trust” for the american people. by the government…When we do not like how the government is managing our “property” resourses ect, we have a right as a “stakeholder” to challenge them by suing the us government agency or by asking congress for a law to define and or expand and or limit their care custody and control specifically. “we the people” is an expression that basically by our vote and will- we allow the government to do our business for the people and make decisions on our behalf…boy does that over simplify it???LOL-we have given them the legal right subject to congressional law to manage the horses..technically we do not personally hold title to public lands nor do we as the stakeholders hold actual title to the horses- but we give them the right to pass title-and we do have the right to input-and as we can all see…the only recourse in the near term is to sue in order to stop them…I am not going to live long enough to see the political system function in a manner that can adequetely resolve this.

  9. LOUIE COCROFT said

    SANDRA, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHERE WE GIVE THE GOVERNMENT THE RIGHT TO SWAP OR SELL OUR PUBLIC LANDS. I HAVE SEEN THIS AS KIND OF A CHESS GAME–PUT THE CATTLE THERE TO HOLD THE PLACE WITH GRAZING PERMITS–LIKE PAWNS–THEN, WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT, SELL, SWAP OR JUST GIVE IT AWAY TO ???. THERE IS A LOT THERE THAT IS BEING COVETED–MINERALS, WATER RIGHTS, EVEN RIGHTS TO THE AIR, OR SO IT SEEMS. THEY GET ALL OF THE GROUPS SQUABBLING AMONGST EACH OTHER WHILE THEY SLIP AWAY WITH THE DEEDS. THE PUBLIC DOESN’T EVEN REALIZE WHAT HAPPENED UNTIL IT IS TOO LATE, IF THEY HAVE THEIR WAY.

    • sandra longley said

      Yes, that is a valuable lesson I have learned in all this..Is that I need to quit my job so that I can stay on top of them..i had no idea exactly what was going on under our noses…and quite frankly it looks to me you can just about roll the dice that any decision they come to is worth a challenge..I was reading the document T had posted here on the BLM and Science..they state that science has to be balanced by political, economical, and stakeholder concerns as well as their legal mandates from congress..thats a whole barrel of monkeys to answer to..and kind of negates the science part

    • sandra longley said

      It seems to me they act as the “legal gaurdian” of our public lands and horses-and of course they are supposedly acting in our interests..a father knows best kind of a relationship..We are getting an education now, and I speak for myself when I say I am not a happy camper…and like it or not..the only way we as stakeholders, can get the opportunity to change that is in the court system..When ever you here someone saying this country is sue happy and we should limit peoples ability to litigate..you should be very afraid..its really the only way we have to protect ourselves from government and large corporations..frivalous lawsuits rarely move through the court systems..And there is no such thing as innocent until proven guilty..you have to prove you are innocent..most innocent people haven’t CYA..and guilty people have

  10. LOUIE COCROFT said

    SANDRA, DON’T EVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF A GRASSROOTS MOVEMENT–YOU ARE IN ONE. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY THINGS HAVE EVER CHANGED. IT IS TIME THAT WE FRAME THE DEBATE.

  11. LOUIE COCROFT said

    I WENT ONTO THE WEBSITE OF SOMEONE WHO HAS A WILD HORSE SANCTURARY IN NORTHERN CALIFORNIA. SHE SAID THAT AFTER ONE OF THE NEWSPAPERS IN L.A. DID A STORY ABOUT HER, HER BANK ACCOUNT WENT FROM $1,000 TO $100,000. SHE COULD STOCK UP ON FEED AND DO A WHOLE LOT OF WORK ON HER SANCTUARY THAT SHE HAD BEEN WANTING TO DO–PROBABLY PAID A FEW VET BILLS, TOO.

  12. LOUIE COCROFT said

    YOU GUYS ARE ALL GOOD WRITERS–KEEP WRITING AND KEEP IT OUT THERE IN THE PUBLIC. THIS HAS TO BE A MULTI-PRONGED, “DAMNED THE TORPEDOS AND FULL SPEED AHEAD” APPROACH.

  13. LOUIE COCROFT said

    SANDRA, THIS IS IN THE COMMENTS ON THE WILD HERDS WEBSITE:

    Another provision of FLPMA the BLM is ignoring is the EXCEPTION clause that clearly states any lands specially designated for a certain purpose prior to the enactment of FLPMA shall be exempt from any mandatory “multi-use” or “sustainability of yield” considerations or requirements. In other words, any other use of the land MAY be permitted (discretionary) as long as the new use didnt interfere with the “principality” of the land as wild horse and burro historic range.” The law is pretty clear on this so I left wondering why have they been getting away with ignoring (nullifying)these very important federal statutues for so many years? The WFHBA of 1971 and FLMPAs exception for “previously designated” lands were enacted to protect our wild equines, and to keep them forever free and principal users of their historic lands NO MATTER WHAT OTHER USE may be planned for the land at a later time. BLM is ignoring the laws alright, but it is the LAwyers who are letting them get away with it. How long before a wfhb laywer will write out a “statutory nulification” charge against the DOI and/or the BLM? Then you will have your winner. Then all the round-ups will stop. What R they waiting 4?
    MARCH 7, 2010 12:40 PM

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